Commons talk:Picture of the Year

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Picture of the Year 2023
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POTY 2023 || Introduction – Rules – Discussion – Translations – Committee – Help || R1 Candidates – Gallery || R2 Gallery || Results

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On the POTY 2023 page it says: "Round 1 begins on 1 February 2024, 00:00 and ends on 14 February 2024, 23:59:59 [UTC]". Well, I haven't been able to vote and still can't. My account is eligible. --Minilammas (talk) 16:01, 10 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Minilammas: That was a placeholder. In theory the 2023 page shouldn't be linked from anywhere yet. :) @Legoktm: it may be a good idea to replace it with "soon" or something regardless. — Rhododendrites talk |  20:03, 10 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
So when will it take place, if all goes according to plan? Nardog (talk) 06:43, 11 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Rhododendrites, @Legoktm: is there something we can help? Emha (talk) 16:19, 27 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Sorry for being MIA. I'll try to have an update by the weekend. Legoktm (talk) 07:07, 14 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Legoktm, It's been a month. Any update? Shawnqual (talk) 05:08, 12 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Waiting for it

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Any date? ★ 21:31, 15 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support your question. Eryakaas (talk) 18:04, 4 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
+1 — Draceane talkcontrib. 19:20, 4 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
ZZZ ★ 01:37, 5 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I received an announcement with a link to this misleading page. I was asked to check my participating images before voting will start. But the page tells me the voting has already been held in February 2024. August Geyler (talk) 08:48, 25 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Don't worry, it hasn't happened yet. BigDom (talk) 11:54, 25 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Call for comittee members

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Dear Comittee members (@Legoktm, AntiCompositeNumber, and ZI Jony: ), please let us know if you are able to work on the contest. If not, it is time to look for new committee members to keep the contest going. Obviously the community would not be happy to see this project cease to exist. Jklamo (talk) 19:28, 5 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Jklamo: , we are working on it, will start at earliest. (@Legoktm, AntiCompositeNumber, and Rhododendrites: ). Regards, ZI Jony (Talk) 13:37, 7 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Nice to hear that! The community is already looking forward to the launch of the contest in the coming weeks. Jklamo (talk) 13:55, 7 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I believe it may be time to look for new committee members who have enough time to utilize for this project. The current members seem to busy with other things in life and so far have not provided any answers to indicate if or when the contest will take place for quite a long while now. It has been one or another form of "we're on to it". @Legoktm last stated there would be an update over two months ago and has been MIA since then. If not new members then someone needs to have some level of oversight over the committee to ensure that the project goes ahead on time. Shawnqual (talk) 05:17, 25 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Shawnqual: , as I said earlier, we are working on it! I face some error in the tool, maybe because of the recent changes in toolforge or I still didn't get access to all over. Regards, ZI Jony (Talk) 07:19, 25 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Close to two months now since your call and a month since my reply of urging to find new committee members...and nada! Nothing has transpired. Of the three members you called out, one has finally replied about burning out (rightfully so), another said 'working on it' and provided no update and another never replied! Like @ArionStar says below, this has indeed become a joke! Shawnqual (talk) 15:02, 27 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Wikimedia Commons Pictures of the Year: "The Commons Picture of the Year (POTY) was a competition that ran from 2006 to 2023." ★ 17:37, 27 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
RIP. It was fun while it lasted. Shawnqual (talk) 16:58, 1 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

POTY runs on a complicated set of scripts with no real documentation. Legoktm is, as far as I know, the only committee member (and one of the only people) who knows how to use those scripts and, more importantly, how to fix things when the scripts don't work as expected. Lego seems to be busy with real life these last couple months, hence we have no updates. I don't think we should try to run the scripts without Lego around -- we don't want to promote it and start it just to be unable to fix a problem. Last year's was held in April/May, but the previous two years weren't held until the end of the year, so it's not like we're on a rigid schedule. If more time goes by and we don't hear from Lego there's only one other active user that I know of who understands the scripts, and I'll spare that person a bunch of pings for the time being. — Rhododendrites talk |  12:00, 25 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for the news and explanations Rhododendrites! I hope Legoktm is fine and nothing serious happened to him 🍀 -- Giles Laurent (talk) 13:36, 25 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Maybe one of the previous committee members can also help you guys understand the scripts in case Lego doesn't come back any time soon? Here are the links : 2018, 2019, 2020, 2021. -- Giles Laurent (talk) 17:16, 26 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
With the exception of Firefly (pinging now despite my "spare that person" comment above), people who ran it in previous years have been explicit about not wanting to do so again. I get the sense that Firefly was glad for Lego to take it over, but if we don't hear from Lego maybe they want to give it another go? The timing isn't as dire as when Firefly stepped up to make it happen a couple years ago yet, though. — Rhododendrites talk |  17:30, 26 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

June, and…

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★ 16:49, 1 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Check replies by Rhododendrites above in the 'Callfor Committee members'. There is no set timeline for POTY. Moreover, there are a very select few who know how to use scripts to run this project. One of whom is missing in action. Shawnqual (talk) 09:31, 3 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Well good news : seems like Lego came back yesterday ;) But if for any reason he's still not available, here is a list of rust programmers, a list of 215 Javascript experts and a list of 152 Javascript professionnals that might be able to understand the scripts if needed -- Giles Laurent (talk) 10:27, 3 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
This is becoming a joke… ★ 14:10, 24 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I've just accepted that there'll be no POTY anymore. If it will happen one day — cool, but if not — it is already settled for me. Красный wanna talk? 05:52, 26 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
This is it! I had no idea such an immense and popular competition was run this way. Disappointing. Shawnqual (talk) 15:06, 27 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Sorry y'all, as I've explained elsewhere I burned out and had to take a break and am now slowly getting back into things. I'm not sure when I'll be ready to do POTY things again, but I'd like to clarify that everything I've worked on related to POTY is open source and public, and if there's something that I alone have access to (I don't think there is) I'm happy to add others. Legoktm (talk) 01:56, 27 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you for the much needed news Legoktm. I hope you'll end up recovering all of your burnt energy and motivation in the future 🍀
In order to better enlighten people that would be interested to help I would have a few questions if you would accept to answer them:
1) What are the next needed steps to run POTY this year ?
2) Are the scripts broken and need repair or is it just the usual proceeding that has to be done ?
3) Does the usual proceeding need programming knowledges (if yes, what langages?) or is it doable by anyone but time consuming to run ?
I would be very grateful if you could answer these questions. I'm sure it will allow people to decide if they want to join in to help and allow them to know if they are qualified for the job. Also here is an idea that I had : maybe it would be helpful to have a step by step video guide of how to run POTY (for the usual proceeding of course, not for specific repairs as they are unpredictable). It could be made by simply recording the screen when running it (even if there's no voice or written explanation) and then just uploading it to YouTube, so that future committee members might have a visual guide of what to do to run it. -- Giles Laurent (talk) 10:08, 27 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
also @AntiCompositeNumber and ZI Jony: ). ZI talked about facing "some error in the tool". Shawnqual (talk) 15:08, 27 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I think the "error in the tool" mentioned at 07:19, 25 May 2024 (UTC) was referring to this issue that has been solved 09:43, 25 May 2024 (UTC). But there might be new errors since then. Also I'd like the point of view of Lego on the situation because he has excellent programming skills. -- Giles Laurent (talk) 22:41, 27 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you for your service in the past and also taking the time to reply here. I completely understand burning out from wiki and hope you get better. Take your time, and don't feel any pressure. Shawnqual (talk) 15:11, 27 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Jimbo Wales, help us! ★ 22:53, 27 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
IIRC I proposed the creation of a POTY tool in some past Community Wishlist, because having a set of poorly documented scripts that are so cumbersome to use that we can barely find one volunteer a year to take the burden is not workable. In general, Commons really needs more people who can develop and maintain technical tools... or for the Wikimedia Foundation to take some of those projects over. That proposal got very little support. — Rhododendrites talk |  02:31, 28 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Can anyone contact Jimmy? ★ 10:19, 28 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I think a post should be made on Village Pump (and any other places where help may be found) to inform the community that POTY committee needs a new member with programming skills but I'm not sure what level of skills is needed and for what programming langages. It would also have been nice to be able to tell beforehand what are the next steps needed to run POTY this year (Repair code? Or simply understand how to use the functionning actual code? What to do next : fix dates? Inform uploaders? Etc.) -- Giles Laurent (talk) 11:03, 28 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Yeah, please go ahead and post on Village Pump. I believe the main obstacle here is of understanding and Using the scripts required to run POTY. At this rate, our best bet might be to ping various users from the lists of rust programmers and Javascript experts you posted above. Alternatively, another idea could be to move the competition entirely to a simple and easy to use website, instead of relying on these likely outdated scripts. Shawnqual (talk) 16:57, 1 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
EDIT: I have posted on Reddit to bring some attention to the matter. Shawnqual (talk) 17:29, 1 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I can probably help if needed. I'm not super familiar with POTY, but I do have quite a bit of experience with Javascript (and a little bit with Rust). Ingenuity (talk) 20:40, 1 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Moving to toolforge: (with OAuth login) might be a good idea if it works better over there, although a rewrite would almost certainly mean additional delay this year (even if it would make the procedure smoother in the future). —Tacsipacsi (talk) 22:11, 1 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I think they already use toolforge : click here. Also, source code is available here -- Giles Laurent (talk) 22:59, 1 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Ingenuity: check the comment by Giles above. Shawnqual (talk) 03:45, 2 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
While it doesn’t look bad (except for the internal server errors caused by phab:T299947), it’s still not what I imagined, the stuff is still fragmented:
  • Rust scripts running on Toolforge (hopefully all of them are on Toolforge?), making direct SQL queries
  • Wiki pages created using the Rust scripts and manually, many translatable on Special:Translate
  • JavaScript voting gadget
It might be the best possible user experience, but it isn’t the best possible developer experience, as several programming languages (Rust, JavaScript, wikitext, SQL) are used and different permissions are needed to change different bits (Toolforge and GitLab access to change the Rust scripts; Commons admin right to edit some of the wiki pages, Commons translation admin right to finalize changes to translatable pages, Commons interface admin right to change the voting gadget).
It’s also not the best possible committee member experience, since (as far as I understand) those Rust scripts still need to be started manually, they don’t automatically run on pre-set dates.
What I imagined is getting rid of at least the JavaScript voting gadget, sending users to vote on Toolforge: this would eliminate one programming language (JavaScript), one access level (Commons interface admin) and one manual step (checking for ineligible votes – ineligible voters could simply be denied from casting the vote). —Tacsipacsi (talk) 14:21, 2 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you for your feedback Tacsipacsi. I'm not sure I understand your remark about the internal server errors. Does the actual code work or does it need some fixes to make it work ? If the code already still works, rewriting the code to make it more user and developper friendly would be a nice thing to have but considering the time left I think the priority should be on simply running POTY this year. After POTY finishes this year might be the best time to rewrite the code. Now that you've seen the code and the interface, do you think you might be able to help the committee run POTY this year Tacsipacsi ? Same question to Ingenuity. If yes, I invite the committee to give you access to the toolforge scripts. Also, everyone else that has the skills to understand the code and run it is welcome to help -- Giles Laurent (talk) 07:17, 4 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The code is currently broken, for example https://poty-stuff.toolforge.org/stats/2023 errors out. However, it’s not that broken (or at least I’m not aware of such breakage) that a complete rewrite would be necessary to fix it; just a few database queries need to be tweaked. I can try to send a merge request with the fixes as I’m familiar with the database changes that broke it.
Unfortunately, I have zero experience with Rust, and the project lacks a README, so I fear I can’t be of much help for the Toolforge part other than this merge request. I’m comfortable sending a merge request (which fortunately doesn’t require any extra rights), but I wouldn’t be comfortable actually merging and deploying the code. On the other hand, I’m happy to help with the Special:Translate stuff (I have both experience and rights), and I can also try to help with the JavaScript part (I have experience but no rights), although I’m not aware of anything that currently needs to be done in JavaScript. —Tacsipacsi (talk) 14:51, 6 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I’ve opened the merge request at toolforge-repos/poty-stuff!2, let’s see how it goes. (The automated tests succeeded, so I haven’t done anything incredibly wrong.) —Tacsipacsi (talk) 18:17, 6 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I am in support of any ideas which can make the process of running this competition more developer friendly. Not sure how the process of rewriting the code to remove elements could be started. I am in agreement with Giles that the priority should be run to the comp this year and then start on the next steps of simplyfying the code and looking for new committee members. Shawnqual (talk) 11:04, 4 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

POTY used to work fine without any scripts. Just go back to using Wikitext like this. Nosferattus (talk) 00:41, 8 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
That would be an option if the competition wasn't getting voters in multiples of 100s and if there weren't a plethora of images in multiple categories! Shawnqual (talk) 10:53, 8 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I noticed that POTY was ran in python programming langage before the source code was rewriten in rust and javascript programming langages. I think more people master python than rust. So if we can't make the rust code work, switching back to python might be a solution. But if the rust code was working for years and that the only problem was the database queries, maybe Tacsipacsi repaired it and the code might work again. But someone needs to approve his merge request and test if it works again -- Giles Laurent (talk) 12:07, 8 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Shawnqual: The Community Wishlist Survey gets thousands of voters, but all the voting is done purely by WikiText (at least the last time I saw it). Nosferattus (talk) 16:15, 9 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
It's enhanced by gadget JavaScript just like PotY. Nardog (talk) 16:33, 9 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
People in the past changed it from wikitext to other languages for a reason. It also sounds like a drastically regressive idea. Pretty sure we can get some volunteers soon. Shawnqual (talk) 16:27, 10 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Proposal to have icons on the top right of files that became POTY finalists and winners This file was awarded first place in Picture of the Year This file was awarded second place in Picture of the Year This file was awarded third place in Picture of the Year This file was a finalist in Picture of the Year

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Hi! There already are icons on the top right of each file considered Featured picture , Picture of the day , Valued image , Quality Image , Wiki Loves Earth winner and Wiki Loves Monuments winner .

Could we also add an icon on the top right of each file that was assessed Picture of the Year winner or finalist ?

There is two ways to do it.

One would be to copy paste the following code on each individual file page :

For 1st place files: This file was awarded first place in Picture of the Year 

{{Top icon|imagename=POTY barnstar.svg|wikilink=Commons:Picture_of_the_Year/2021/Results/All|description=This file was awarded first place in Picture of the Year 2021|imagesize=64px|sortkey=001}}

For 2nd place files: This file was awarded second place in Picture of the Year

{{Top icon|imagename=PODY 2nd barnstar.svg|wikilink=Commons:Picture_of_the_Year/2021/Results/All|description=This file was awarded second place in Picture of the Year 2021|imagesize=64px|sortkey=002}}

For 3rd place files: This file was awarded third place in Picture of the Year

{{Top icon|imagename=PODY 3rd barnstar.svg|wikilink=Commons:Picture_of_the_Year/2021/Results/All|description=This file was awarded third place in Picture of the Year 2021|imagesize=64px|sortkey=003}}

For finalist files: This file was a finalist in Picture of the Year

{{Top icon|imagename=PODY ribbon.svg|wikilink=Commons:Picture_of_the_Year/2021/Results/All|description=This file was a finalist in Picture of the Year 2021|imagesize=64px|sortkey=004}}

I have tested it and it works perfectly.

Another way is to edit the template {{Assessments}} and to edit the top code of the page to something that looks like this. For the template code I’m not 100% sure because I can’t test it. I'm also not sure if {{{POTYyear}}} is the right way to display the year it won.

I hope this can get implemented and I wish you all a nice day.

-- Giles Laurent (talk) 12:46, 18 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I'm not sure if this was the right page to post this suggestion and I just found out that it should maybe have been posted on this page instead so I just posted it there now. -- Giles Laurent (talk) 17:25, 18 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I like this idea, Giles Laurent, but I'd actually post it to COM:VP instead. Neither this page nor the template talk page have many pagewatchers. — Rhododendrites talk |  18:42, 18 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you for the suggestion! Just posted it there -- Giles Laurent (talk) 19:26, 18 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Seems like the only place people are active on this matter is here so I propose that those who agree or disagree with this proposal comment down bellow to know if there is a consensus to add a top right icon for POTY winners and finalists files. -- Giles Laurent (talk) 18:07, 4 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Confirmed results:
Result: 11 support, 0 oppose, 0 neutral → implemented. /-- Giles Laurent (talk) 10:27, 20 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
This proposal was implemented with this edit

Categorization

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I noticed that File:Alice-in-Wonderland_by-David-Revoy_2010-07-21.jpg was in Commons:Picture_of_the_Year/2023/R1/Gallery/Paintings,_textiles_and_works_on_paper, but the work is a digital painting. I have now added Category:Digital paintings to it to clarify this. Do "digital paintings" also fall into this category? --Bensin (talk) 20:50, 6 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

It's a good question -- there are many gray areas and judgment calls with the category setup. In this case, the only other category which could work is "Objects, shells and miscellaneous", I think? So I think a digital painting is fine in "paintings, textiles and works on paper" (IMO). — Rhododendrites talk |  21:02, 6 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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